Nice of you to join!

First – All truth is God’s truth but if you will read my comment you will notice that I intentionally capitalized Truth because I am referring to Jesus Christ as The Truth. I stand by my statement that it is not possible to get an education in a public school that centers on that Truth. Certainly students are taught truth in schools I never said they were not.

Second I am not arbitrarily categorizing or defining what a public school is. I simply said its philosophy is derived from humanism. That is not arbitrary it is factual. Your comment supports what I said. Based on what you have written you agree with me that the public school system is based on humanism. I didn’t say that it was wrong or undesirable for it to be. You are putting words in my comment that do not exist!

Third and most importantly THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE CONDEMNING WORD IN ANY OF MY COMMENTS REGARDING PUBLIC EDUCATION!!! I am simply responding to Amanda’s comment about public schools being Christian schools – they are not. The two are different and again according to your comment you agree with me on that matter.

Fourth you are naive if you think this, and I quote, “I want only those thing empirically provable taught in the schools.” is happening in the public school system.

Fifth I don’t think your point about evangelism in the school system is relevant at all in regards to education. You also make the mistake of assuming that all of the students in a Christian school are Christians and none of them are experiencing a difficult life.

Finally Amanda I don’t think you would be comfortable with a group of motivated Buddhist standing up for what they believe and making your school a Buddhist school. That is why a Christian school is different than a public school. I also don’t think I could be more vocal about supporting public schools than I have. On a number of occasions I have talked from the pulpit about the importance of supporting public school teachers.

When I blogged about The Christian Ghetto it had nothing to do with Christian education. Somehow it has turned into that while I am unfortunately on vacation. I am turning the comments off of this post until I am finished vacating. I will turn them back on when I get home on June 29. I have enjoyed the discussion and look forward to picking it back up. Until then I love you all – even you Dan!

I certainly do not judge families and churches for seeking better situations for their own families. It is merely my humble opinion that as a church body we need to be careful to not create a Christian ghetto of our own by isolating our children in an environment so Christian that they don’t know how to respond when they encounter other lost children (‘sinners’ who are doing drugs, involved in homosexuality, who are into self infliction like cutting, and so forth).

I appreciate your support, Jimmy, of public education and educators. I wish it were more vocal among the church body, though. Sometimes as a public educator I feel more on the outside than the inside when it comes to our church. Satan attacks us all in ways that he knows we are prone to weakness. I know it is him that I battle with this situation…not you and not the members of our church family.

First of all, you don’t get to arbitrarily categorize what public school is, define it, and then condemn it based on your own definition. For instance, Jimmy Holbrook has a humanist philosophy. Humanism is an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Therefore, Jimmy Holbrook must not be Christian.

Secondly, it also doesn’t follow that “humanism” in the public schools is undesirable or wrong. I can write a textbook or teach a class about differential equation and not need or even desire to bring any aspect of faith into the conversation. I don’t need “Christianity” to prove that sound levels are inversely proportional to distance. I also would bet that a majority of the curriculum taught in the “christian school” is derived from “humanistic” sources and has a large “humanistic” approach to it, unless your math or english textbook was derived from revelation or some divine source. At the very least, your mathematics and algebra has its origin in the Muslim world or even worse…the Babylonians.

We mostly teach in a method not used by Jesus, but popularized by the Greek Philosophers (using the Socratic method you love so much) and reintroduced to the west by Charlemagne in an attempt to educate in the classics.

I could be in the minority, but I want a mostly humanistic education for my daughters. I want only those thing empirically provable taught in the schools. When I want spirituality, I will teach it. I want my girls taught the order of operations, how to use active and passive voice, and the chemical composition of salts.

I also wouldn’t be extremely fired up if one of my girls learned the alphabet by associating “A with all” and “C with Children” unless you want to teach your kids to say cat as “Chat.” I am afraid we can try so hard to incorporate “faith” into our lessons, we impede the effectiveness of the classroom.

I also wonder how different our old youth group would have looked if the key people had gone to christian schools. How would those kids from broken homes or simply didn’t “know christ” have found their way to the church without the bonds of friendship they had with other members of the youth group? And it wouldn’t stop there…we have “christian collages” that they can go to. So when do these “warriors” go into the “battle?” 25 at their job?

You are taking issue with what I am not saying. I simply responded to Amanda’s comment that all schools are Christian. Public schools are not Christian and there is nothing to debate about on that matter. The best you can hope for in a public school is a great teacher like yourself or Amanda who love the Lord and look for opportunities to influence your students for Christ. But if either one of you started connecting scripture to all of your lessons and praying before each class you would find out immediately that public schools are not Christian. A Christian schools curriculum has these this incorporated into it. For instance our kindergarten class learns their ABC’s with a different verse attached to each letter: A is for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, B is for believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, C is for children obey your parents in the Lord, etc. They even cite the scripture reference with it. That is the difference between a public verses private education. I am sure you get very creative in your classroom and incorporate your faith into it but you must be careful not to cross the line. In a Christian school incorporating your faith into the learning environment is the line. This is the philosophy that I am referring to that determines what kind of school you have. I believe that you can get an excellent education in a public school. Daniel and Cory are both prime examples of that. I didn’t say anything critical about someone choosing to put their kids in a public school. As a matter of fact I said I personally would put mine in a public school. What I am saying is that a public school and a private Christian school are just different in their objective. That is why one is private and the other is public. Many people cannot afford to place their kids in a private Christian school that is why I am for a voucher system. Instead of the government directly funding schools parents would get vouchers and they could place their kids in the school of their choosing. This would eliminate bureaucracy and create competition. The great schools would survive and the terrible schools (even terrible Christian schools) would fail. Parents would have a choice in how and where their children are educated. Please don’t interpret my support of Christian education as an attack on your profession as a public school teacher. I will state once again that I am thankful that you are there!!

I think it is great that you and your kids, as well as many other people who are dear to me are part of the public school system. But the public school system is NOT Christian. It is a system that has Christians in it for sure but that doesn’t make it Christian. Students and faculty are not what determines if a school is Christian. If a non-Christian student attends a Christian school that does not make the school secular. As a matter of fact the entire faculty and student body could be Muslim and the school still be Christian. Philosophy is what determines the type of school you have. The public school system is based on humanism and a Christian school is based on Theism. Just a quick read of the definitions sheds an incredible amount of light on the differences between a Christian school and a public school.

humanism – an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.

theism – belief in the existence of a god or gods, esp. belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.

A Christian school has a completely different philosophy. God is at the center and the students education revolves around that truth. A public school on the other hand places the human at the center and God must orbit the human.

A Christian school should never exist as a source of isolation from a lost and hurting world. That is why Harrah Christian School’s mission is to produce fully developed followers of Christ equipped with everything necessary to be a cultural force for change in the Harrah community, Oklahoma, and around the world.

You and many others serve as missionaries in the public school system and I thank God that you are there. If the day comes when one of my children feel the call of God to go back into the public school system I will passionately support that decision and gladly send them provided they have demonstrated responsibility and faithfulness to Christ. As long as the public school system exists we need faithful followers of Christ inside of it!

In a Christian school a child can get an excellent education that centers on Truth. That is not possible in a public school.

I’m glad you’re out of the ghetto!

I guess its no secret that I have felt defensive when it comes to christian schools vs. public schools. And I think it is because I feel so passionately and strongly about what I do and the choice we have made for our own children.

I believe in Christian education. But, I believe it should come from the church and mainly from the home. I wish that all schools were ‘Christian’ schools. And they are. Until the christians all leave or stop standing up for what they believe.