Comments on: Judgement Within the Body http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=607 Pastor Jimmy Holbrook Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:55:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dan http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-791 Dan Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:31:25 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-791 I feel accountability and judgment within the Church is very important. But it should be handled in a spirit of restitution of that person and not condemnation. We have two choice...(1) We can live in a bubble, surround ourselves only with strong believers, attend only church activities, etc. Sure, temptations and struggles will happen less, but are you doing good for the kingdom, or protecting yourself? Who are you reaching. Option (2) is to live outside that bubble, hanging out with non believers, building relationships with folks who are lost. The problem here is sinful behavior can take hold of you before you even recognize it. I think the best place to be is both. We should be "in the world, but not of it". But if (or when) it starts to bring us down, we need our church family and friends to be able to recognize it and help get us back where we should be. But we should treat each other as a wounded soldier who needs healing, not as a deserter. I feel accountability and judgment within the Church is very important. But it should be handled in a spirit of restitution of that person and not condemnation. We have two choice…(1) We can live in a bubble, surround ourselves only with strong believers, attend only church activities, etc. Sure, temptations and struggles will happen less, but are you doing good for the kingdom, or protecting yourself? Who are you reaching. Option (2) is to live outside that bubble, hanging out with non believers, building relationships with folks who are lost. The problem here is sinful behavior can take hold of you before you even recognize it.

I think the best place to be is both. We should be “in the world, but not of it”. But if (or when) it starts to bring us down, we need our church family and friends to be able to recognize it and help get us back where we should be. But we should treat each other as a wounded soldier who needs healing, not as a deserter.

]]> By: Shannon http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-789 Shannon Sat, 27 Feb 2010 04:08:55 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-789 Heck yeah it is! Bravo! Heck yeah it is! Bravo!

]]> By: jimmy http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-785 jimmy Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:34:31 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-785 Thanks for your authenticity!! It's encouraging to know you are healing. Thanks for your authenticity!! It’s encouraging to know you are healing.

]]> By: HC Member http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-784 HC Member Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:30:55 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-784 Shannon, I think you are headed in the right direction. Interesting your example was porn addiction. You might be surprised at the data about it. Surveys have revealed at least 50% of Christian men struggle with porn. But there's not much mention of it in the church, probably because there is such a stigma associated with it. I believe this to be one of the elephants in the room. There are resources available, you just have to search deeper for them. There are groups for men struggling with porn along with mentorship groups being offered periodically. PurityProject.com is a good resource for anyone seeking help. I know these things because I have sought help for my porn addiction and am still in the process of battling it. Shannon,

I think you are headed in the right direction.

Interesting your example was porn addiction. You might be surprised at the data about it. Surveys have revealed at least 50% of Christian men struggle with porn.

But there’s not much mention of it in the church, probably because there is such a stigma associated with it. I believe this to be one of the elephants in the room.

There are resources available, you just have to search deeper for them. There are groups for men struggling with porn along with mentorship groups being offered periodically. PurityProject.com is a good resource for anyone seeking help.

I know these things because I have sought help for my porn addiction and am still in the process of battling it.

]]> By: Richard Manlove http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-779 Richard Manlove Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:25:35 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-779 Hey, The church is a supernatural, spiritual eternal organism (a body) made up of finite human beings indwelt by God. While I beleive the time of the miraculous gifts ceased with the apostles, we have yet to even begin to explore and map the dimensions of the power described in the Ephesians 1 passage. What would happen to our world (our in both the singular and plural forms) if allowed ourselves to be a chanel in which God used his power to work his will in this world? Hey,
The church is a supernatural, spiritual eternal organism (a body) made up of finite human beings indwelt by God. While I beleive the time of the miraculous gifts ceased with the apostles, we have yet to even begin to explore and map the dimensions of the power described in the Ephesians 1 passage. What would happen to our world (our in both the singular and plural forms) if allowed ourselves to be a chanel in which God used his power to work his will in this world?

]]> By: Donna http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-777 Donna Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:45:31 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-777 I agree with Shannon accountability is a beautiful thing and it is a thing that needs to be learned at an early age. Too many times parents try to justify the actions of their child or deny their child did something even when we as adults witnessed the action. Children need to learn there are consequences to their actions and they will be held accountable for them. Maybe then as they become adults they will think twice before engaging in unacceptable behavior. I believe this is a resource we can tap with life changing results. I agree with Shannon accountability is a beautiful thing and it is a thing that needs to be learned at an early age. Too many times parents try to justify the actions of their child or deny their child did something even when we as adults witnessed the action. Children need to learn there are consequences to their actions and they will be held accountable for them. Maybe then as they become adults they will think twice before engaging in unacceptable behavior. I believe this is a resource we can tap with life changing results.

]]> By: Kris http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-773 Kris Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:48:00 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-773 So Richard - let's talk about that power that is available to us as Christians that we hardly tap into. The following scripture comes to mind: I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power FOR US WHO BELIEVE. That POWER is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come (Ephesians 1:18-21). Is that the kind of power you're talking about we aren't tapping into? I think it is! So Richard – let’s talk about that power that is available to us as Christians that we hardly tap into. The following scripture comes to mind: I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power FOR US WHO BELIEVE. That POWER is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come (Ephesians 1:18-21).

Is that the kind of power you’re talking about we aren’t tapping into? I think it is!

]]> By: Richard Manlove http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-772 Richard Manlove Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:02:39 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-772 Hey, I agree with Shannon that we need more resources and greater use of those we have. However, I wonder if we really believe Paul when he said, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Our problem in solving addictive sin may be that we start with ourselves and our resources rather than starting with our Creator and the resources of eternity and the universe. I just believe we have never tapped into the power that is really available to us as Christians. Hey,
I agree with Shannon that we need more resources and greater use of those we have. However, I wonder if we really believe Paul when he said, “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” Our problem in solving addictive sin may be that we start with ourselves and our resources rather than starting with our Creator and the resources of eternity and the universe. I just believe we have never tapped into the power that is really available to us as Christians.

]]> By: Shannon http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-764 Shannon Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:48:34 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-764 All of this sounds wonderful BUT..Are we willing to go the distance? As a body of believers, are we willing to go the distance? This is a perpetual problem in our small group, church and in the community. Ok, someone backs you in the corner and confesses their sin. A relentless sin that is eating away at their life. Then what? Usually, I am too overwhelmed with the sin to be judgmental. I can be judgmental. We all can be. But in that moment, I'm overwhelmed. So we pray, counsel to the best of our ability, point out scripture and pray some more. We challenge and confront but it usually backfires. Someone gets their feelings hurt and they leave. I don't feel convicted about that. We challenge and we try to judge fairly. If we are missing the mark, I think it is in the area of emphasizing complete accountability. Accountability is a beautiful thing. Chris and I need to get better about fostering a group where someone can hold themselves accountable to the whole group. We cannot be the only support in the small group and Jimmy cannot be a counselor to all. There are other members who are useful but they can't help if their fellow members are hiding behind us or Jimmy. In the broader scheme, we need to pray for more Christian therapists, drug and alcohol counselors and cognitive behavioral therapists. The best way I can be clear is to give an example. There is no one in our group that suffers from this example. It’s a mock problem. Let’s say someone confesses to Chris that they have a problem with porn addiction….I have only heard of one Christian therapist that specializes in this area of sexual addiction(We should have dozens.) It seems like the best solution is to have a small group where the member could confess his problem to his leader then (if best) to the other men in the group; be challenged/confronted; referred to a Christian professional and supported through the process by the men in his group. Whether we are ministering to the lost or judging our brothers and sisters fairly, WE NEED TO BE RESOURCEFUL! All of this sounds wonderful BUT..Are we willing to go the distance? As a body of believers, are we willing to go the distance? This is a perpetual problem in our small group, church and in the community. Ok, someone backs you in the corner and confesses their sin. A relentless sin that is eating away at their life. Then what? Usually, I am too overwhelmed with the sin to be judgmental. I can be judgmental. We all can be. But in that moment, I’m overwhelmed. So we pray, counsel to the best of our ability, point out scripture and pray some more. We challenge and confront but it usually backfires. Someone gets their feelings hurt and they leave. I don’t feel convicted about that. We challenge and we try to judge fairly. If we are missing the mark, I think it is in the area of emphasizing complete accountability. Accountability is a beautiful thing. Chris and I need to get better about fostering a group where someone can hold themselves accountable to the whole group. We cannot be the only support in the small group and Jimmy cannot be a counselor to all. There are other members who are useful but they can’t help if their fellow members are hiding behind us or Jimmy. In the broader scheme, we need to pray for more Christian therapists, drug and alcohol counselors and cognitive behavioral therapists. The best way I can be clear is to give an example. There is no one in our group that suffers from this example. It’s a mock problem. Let’s say someone confesses to Chris that they have a problem with porn addiction….I have only heard of one Christian therapist that specializes in this area of sexual addiction(We should have dozens.) It seems like the best solution is to have a small group where the member could confess his problem to his leader then (if best) to the other men in the group; be challenged/confronted; referred to a Christian professional and supported through the process by the men in his group. Whether we are ministering to the lost or judging our brothers and sisters fairly, WE NEED TO BE RESOURCEFUL!

]]> By: Richard Manlove http://jimmyholbrook.com/2010/02/607/comment-page-1/#comment-756 Richard Manlove Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:48:12 +0000 http://jimmyholbrook.com/?p=607#comment-756 What is it that makes the church distinctive in the world? It is not good works. Other organizations do good works. It is not in the teaching of moral and ethical concepts. Other organizations do that. It is not in fellowship. Other organizations have that. The church is distinctive because it deals with sin. Our proclamation is that there is sin, that it is offensive to God, that God judges the sinner and that there is an eternal condemnation awaiting the sinner. Yet, we give hope through Jesus Christ and the benevolence of God's grace. The church is distinctive because it deals with sin. Unless we, with love and humility, deal with lifestyle sin within our number the church becomes just another social circle, a club with it's duties, no different than the Lion's Club or Rotary. If we lose our distinctiveness, we have lost our message. Members of Christ's body, who display a lifestyle of sin to the world, disavow the validity of our message, they lighten the awfulness of sin, they cheapen the value of Christ's blood, they ridicule the notion of power over sin and they mock the holiness of God and the growing holiness of his people. The true church is one who with one hand, in love, confronts the wayward member with the consequences of his sin and with the other hand, in love, lifts him up and sets him on the right path to God. (from Sin, October 15, 2009, http://omgtoday.wordpress.com) What is it that makes the church distinctive in the world? It is not good works. Other organizations do good works. It is not in the teaching of moral and ethical concepts. Other organizations do that. It is not in fellowship. Other organizations have that. The church is distinctive because it deals with sin.
Our proclamation is that there is sin, that it is offensive to God, that God judges the sinner and that there is an eternal condemnation awaiting the sinner. Yet, we give hope through Jesus Christ and the benevolence of God’s grace. The church is distinctive because it deals with sin.
Unless we, with love and humility, deal with lifestyle sin within our number the church becomes just another social circle, a club with it’s duties, no different than the Lion’s Club or Rotary. If we lose our distinctiveness, we have lost our message.
Members of Christ’s body, who display a lifestyle of sin to the world, disavow the validity of our message, they lighten the awfulness of sin, they cheapen the value of Christ’s blood, they ridicule the notion of power over sin and they mock the holiness of God and the growing holiness of his people.
The true church is one who with one hand, in love, confronts the wayward member with the consequences of his sin and with the other hand, in love, lifts him up and sets him on the right path to God.
(from Sin, October 15, 2009, http://omgtoday.wordpress.com)

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